I was chatting with a monk when he made a funny remark. He said, as roughly translated from Chinese, ‘One can have all the wealth and fame in the world… but so what? One can’t even bring one’s underwear into the next life!’ I grinned in agreement and uttered the popular Chinese saying that sums up the idea – 万般带不去;唯有业随身 – which means ‘The ten thousand things (all kinds of stuff) cannot be brought along (into the next life); only karma follows one.’
Then it struck me that the undies example, though quite comical can be more dramatic in illustrating how even something material, trivial, ‘essential’ and taken for granted can’t be brought over to a future life. Here’s my new take on the saying – 底裤穿不过;唯有业随身! – ‘(Even) underwear cannot be worn (into the next life); only karma follows one!’ (The picture above: A pair of undies trying to follow one into the next life!)
Related Article:
The 10,000 Things You Can’t Bring Along
https://moonpointer.com/new/2009/03/the-10000-things-you-cant-bring-along
You are correct in regards to me having misread your above statement about UN enlightened beings fearing pain and death. My mistake. I don’t believe in rebirth, although i don’t disbelieve it either. Therefor i don’t think my view is a wrong view. Just my view. I don’t believe in right or wrong at all. Just non judgement. It’s my understanding that whenever the buddha was asked about what happens after death and god etc, he answered that it wasn’t what he was teaching, and that people should return to the present moment and not go off into the illusion of speculating about things we cannot prove. Reincarnation is a hindu concept that was later merged with buddhism after the buddha’s death in my humble opinion. I cannot fault you for your compassionate views on vegetarianism, but i chose at the time not to continue that debate as i sensed very strong feelings that might not be open to any give and take. I feel very compassionate towards animals suffering. Far more so than i do towards human suffering which is in most cases is self imposed through their own mindset, where as animals suffering is generally innocent suffering caused by humans. Where my opinion differs with your though is that although i can feel severe pain in seeing a gorilla locked in a small cage in a zoo, i feel that if a cow has a nice life in a field with all its friends and great care, when the time comes that it is instantly killed for food, it knows nothing about it and doesn’t suffer. Of course this only applies if the cow is humanely killed. Finally, in regards to the poker links, i don’t trust the suttras, who claim to be the words of the buddha, but were not written by the buddha, and personally see nothing wrong with poker, but i respect your views on the subject. It’s nice to have somebody to debate these points with. Although this seems to be a classic theravadan ( compassion and right and wrong paths) vs zen (live in the moment and accept what is) debate. I don’t think these have ever really been resolved :). :-[
1. This is a Buddhist blog. Disbelief in rebirth is seen as a wrong view by the Buddha. For more more on rebirth studied scientifically, please see the good objective works of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stevenson For the Buddhist perspective, please see http://www.buddhanet.net/nutshell07.htm
2. If you “don’t believe in right or wrong at all”, what is this discussion about? Just useless arbitrary opinions? If so, none of this matters. Why continue commenting on anything?
3. The Buddha did teach about rebirth. He recalled countless past lives on the night of his enlightenment. Please study Buddhism more completely. Rebirth is taught in ALL Buddhist traditions.
4. Reincarnation in Hinduism is DIFFERENT from the Buddhist concept of rebirth. The first adheres to the concept of an unchanging soul while the latter that there is no fixed self-entity. Please study Buddhism with a qualified teacher before asserting your erroneous views further – anywhere.
5. Your view on vegetarianism are obviously not objective. You should meet your meat at http://www.meat.org . There is nothing to debate about when it comes to suffering of animals and humans caused by meat-eating. As in the Viva link, there are ONLY irrefutable good reasons to go vegetarian. More then 18% of the greenhouse gases which are causing the climate chaos come from the meat industry – more than the gases from all motor vehicles in the skies, on the land and seas combined. Your diet is either part of the problem or part of the solution. Please read up on the FAO 2006 report: http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.html and the IPCC’s recommendations for ALL to eat less meat: http://tinyurl.com/lso4mn
6. You must be missing the real world. Find me cows which have nice lives in open fields – they are few these days. ALL animals suffer when going under the knife. There is NO such thing as humane killing – especially not in the meat industry. It is always an act of violence. You should see the state of most cows’ lives now – http://www.goveg.com/factoryfarming_cows.asp Please watch Fast Food Nation too, for great scenes on how cows are killed in factory style – http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=12,4337,0,0,1,0
7. Buddhist generally trust the sutras more than anyone in general who promote poker links for profiting based on gamblers’ greed and the promoter’s greed. Sutras can be intelligently doubted, but should not be dismissed entirely as worthy records of the Buddha’s teachings. It is obvious than the Buddha would never encourage gambling. If you place your link one more time, it will be strike six – you will be banned from posting.
8. There is no conflict between classic Theravada and Zen living – both teach living in the moment too.
9. Please refrain from posting your comments twice in the same entry, such that it requires deletion. This has happened twice already.
10. James, please open your heart and mind and learn the Buddha’s teachings humbly and systematically. It would benefit yourself and many others greatly. I mean this sincerely. May you be well and happy, along with all other beings, animals and humans included. For a start, try this link for a fair overview:
:bandit:
One very important component in practicing meditation is to have a good foundation of Buddha Dhamma, in order not to go wrong direction.
In Buddhism, it is also mentioned not to simply accept anything by reported hearsay, tradition, without investigation etc. So James is not wrong to say he don’t believe Sutra, unless we reflect, investigate and explore etc. Till the day, we fully gain the truth wisdom, from now till then, whatever views we have is just worldly views. Is all worldly views 100% wrong with no right? What if our worldly views and action is based on Four Noble Truths and The Noble EightFold Path?
We really need a Good Master here to explain … The few sentences below is right but I don’t think James fully understand it and able to apply it correctly yet.
>>> Don’t desire things to be different than they are, and don’t become attached to things as they are. Just accept what is and become one with it in the present moment, as here and now are the only truth. Anything else is just an illusionary image in our minds.
It is good that you said you don’t mind been eaten by a tiger, ultimately, if you practice meditation and apply the above sentences, when encountered with such a situation or in fact any situations (including these here or maybe even much weird, horrible than these), the action should be — Let it goes, let it be, As it is. So, you should not even say ‘Vegetarians confuse me.’, do you get what I mean or am I wrong?
There is a question I have in mind: if one thinks one can achieve the above state and be non-self and able not to be affected by karma, so one can do all things but think can get away? On the Right or Wrong path?
Anyway, this really provide a good opportunity for Sangha
to know what our world need …
Oh yeah … one thing, in the past where there is no factory farming, at the point of killing, it is big suffering and sutra mentioned it …
If there is factory farming in the past (great suffering starts from Day 1 of animals life, the suffering there equivalent to killing at slaughterhouse), don’t believe me, watch earthlings or any truth documentary on factory farming, will the sutra be different – not only mention killing is the worst but …?
Come to think about it carefully, at what point should animal liberation start? At the point being killed or should it be earlier than that? Should we only do what the Sutra said, killing is the worst so liberate these animals at the point when they are going to be slaughtered or …
Do we really understand fully what the sutra is telling us and not just take the word on the surface level? Who’s job? To let people like me know the truth? Giving me a chance to think about it and stop the cycle.
At the point, when the already distress animals faced the horror of being killed, what kind of karmic action is imprint in its subconscious and what effects will it bring to this samsara world. Does that explain why there are so many anger, hated etc in this samsara world?
Even we liberate them, all these days in the factory farm, what had imprint in them – stress, horrror, suffering etc (damages already done), are they not bringing these with them to the next rebirth? How do we know these are the karma of the animals or what going through is not a newly create karma between man and animals. Based on this, we can expect a more violent and terrible samsara world now and in future …
What kind of relationship we created (via consuming these meats) with these animals. Does this explain why in our current life, there are people who like dislike and hate us for no wrong done or for no reason?
These 60 billions (hope I remember the figure correctly) land animals only (excluding in the sea) slaughtered every years, have not learn meditation yet, to let it be …
I sincerely hope the Buddhist Communities could do something about this, at least give some attention to this area even there are other important stuff to do …
I don’t think that we can do anything and get away with it. I think that cause and effect will usually cause us to reap what we sow, but more likely in this life than any speculated other. I don’t know why things keep posting twice or my link continues to link. It’s not intentional. Maybe it’s because i’m posting from my phone? When i say that there’s no right or wrong, i mean absolute right or wrong. Any judgemenent is always purely a matter of perspective. Only by freeing ourselves from judgement can we be at peace. One very powerful tool i’ve taken from buddhism is to believe nothing, and accept that anything is possible. If i could ask everybody one thing, it would be to be very careful about saying that the buddha talked about this or said that. If you weren’t there to hear it then it’s not reality. Just a belief based on what other people have said. I won’t defend my love for poker other than to say that i’m not involved with it out of greed as has been suggested, but enjoy and appreciate the psychology in trying to read your opponents intentions, and the necessary rapid mathematics involved. If you randomly log into any poker site you’ll be suprised at how many players have buddhist screen names. The logical inquireing mind seems to attract people to both poker and buddhism. Maybe reading more buddhist literature would benefit me? Maybe at the same time, reading less and independantly enquiring and experiencing more could benefit others? I honestly wish you all the greatest contentment. Please remember to try to learn to accept things that we cannot control, rather than driving yourself mad worrying about them and investing emotion in them with no positive outcome. Kindest regards.
1. Yes, as mentioned, ‘Sutras can be intelligently doubted, but should not be dismissed entirely as worthy records of the Buddha’s teachings.’ Why, because they are actually still among the best records of what he really taught. The historians will tell you the same.
2. In Buddhism, anything springing from greed, hatred and delusion Is considered unwholesome (‘wrong’). Personal delusion is especially hard to detect. Very devious indeed. That is where humility and learning comes in place of being presumptuous. (On a side note, many in the West have misconstrued ideas of Buddhism because they do not grow up as immersed in Buddhism as those in the East. What’s unfortunate is that they defend these erroneous ideas.)
3. Buddhism does NOT advocate that all desires are harmful. Desire to be good and to advance towards enlightenment (without clinging) is healthy. Only desires based on greed, hatred and delusion are harmful.
4. If we don’t desire things to be different from what they are and just accept everything as they are, we would not improve ourselves and the world will never become a better place. The Buddha would not have taught anything at all too. Making peace with the moment is important, but there should be the healthy urge to make things better too – without loss of peace of mind.
5. To test if one truly doesn’t mind being eaten by a tiger, it is good to start by sacrificing one finger. Next, a whole hand. Chances are, easier said than done. Why? Because there is still attachment to the illusion of ‘self’. When non-self is realised, we would be enlightened already.
6. Only when one becomes fully enlightened, thus understanding the workings of karma entirely, can one know how to not provide conditions for negative karma to ripen at all. And the enlightened will never do evil and try to get away with it.
7. Domestication of animals is wrong in the first place. This is stated in the Brahma Net Sutra. It is because there is capturing and breeding that animal liberation is needed.
8. The immense hatred of animals generated when being slaughtered does not dissipate into nothingness – it is carried over to their next lives. Thus does Buddhism teach that a major source of violent tendencies comes from the unceasing violence in the slaughterhouses. It is a source of wars, racism and such. There will never be peace on Earth as long as there is murder in the millions in slaughterhouses every day.
______________
A. On this idea “I don’t think that we can do anything and get away with it. I think that cause and effect will usually cause us to reap what we sow” – it means you DO believe in something; not nothing. Buddhism does not teach that nothing is to be believed in – as Faith is listed as the first of the Five Spiritual Faculties, a requisite for enlightenment. This faith is not meant to be blind though, as intelligent doubt is encouraged. Buddhism does not teach that anything is possible. For instance, it is impossible to advance towards enlightenment by clinging to delusion.
B. As above, there IS right and wrong. Buddhism teaches that anything that arises from greed, hatred and delusion will lead to suffering. Buddhism does not teach non-judgmentalism for everything. It advocates being mindful not to let greed, hatred and delusion arise within oneself (this is wisdom), and to help remind others the same (this is compassion). Peace comes from having done one’s best to better oneself and the world, while not insisting all to do the same.
C. If I could ask everybody one thing here, it would to be very careful about saying that the Buddha did NOT teach about this or that according to one’s preferences – without learning the Dharma in a more in-depth manner from qualified Dharma teachers.
D. If one enjoys poker as it is without the element of greed in gambling, it is best to play without money involved at all. Anything that increases greed is not spiritually healthy. That many gamble does not mean it is good. Most thought the Earth was flat in the past – it didn’t make this delusion any more good or true. Many social problems arise from gambling – in all nations.
E. Reading Buddhist literature is NOT enough. It is crucial to learn the Dharma from those who practise it well in real life. The Buddha was not supportive of mental fermentations in terms of mere intellectualising without practice and realisation. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
F: There are more things that we can control than we usually imagine, and this control need not drive us mad with worry. It can be done with increasingly more compassion and wisdom. Buddhism is not about sitting back to ‘just let it be’. It is about active transformation of ourselves within and the world without too. The Buddha was a spiritual revolutionary set to change the world – and he did. He spoke against gender inequality, caste inequality, for animal rights, environmental issues… He did not just let everything be. If he did, there would be little worth respecting of him, little worth learning from him. May we all learn and practise the Buddhadharma well. Amituofo
😉
>>>> honestly wish you all the greatest contentment. Please remember to try to learn to accept things that we cannot control, rather than driving yourself mad worrying about them and investing emotion in them with no positive outcome. Kindest regards.
Thanks James 🙂 Really need to thanks you for sharing your different views, you make this post more interesting and add in the reality portion. I always feel that we learn not only from good experiences but also from other experiences too, to know how far that we can apply Buddhist teachings and where we are lacking …
In this world, there are many many things we can’t control, even our own body cell not to die. So, I will not let this affect me but treat it as a beautiful learning experience. Just do what we can and let it be (learning detach) …
One curious question, do you learn meditation on your own or from a Dharma Teacher?
>>> 7. Domestication of animals is wrong in the first place. This is stated in the Brahma Net Sutra. It is because there is capturing and breeding that animal liberation is needed.
Thank you so much Sisyphusian. Good reading your reply.
Honestly, I don’t know about Brahma Net Sutra, what I see from free distribution book – it quoted Shastra on the Great Perfection of Wisdom. So, I guess it does not reflect the full picture, as a non Buddhists or some Buddhists, we might not know.
To me, the world had changed. The Domestication of animals in the past and factory farm is a big HUGE different now – What the animal realm is going through is much much “horrible†compare to the past.
Via understanding this fact deeply, either as human we try our best to practice correctly so that we don’t rebirth into the animal realm or we understand that living in an interdependent world, what happened to the animal does affect us in many ways if we think further …
Take a small example: What happened if this suffering animals being rebirth as human and harboring all these violent, gone mad and started to kill the public without any reasons. If we are among them, what is happening to us, it will affect our rebirth too … For those who can accept it, it is fine, what about others?
For the Sangha, may I request not to shun away speaking of vegetarianism (benefit human and voice out from the animals) and now we even know going vegetarian is one of the ways to save mother earth …
It is not forcing but just bringing the awareness, choices is still others (whether to go vegetarian, eat less meat or ignore it totally) … I don’t think bring awareness a huge task that is impossible.
Tzu Chi Organisation, is so foresighted in this part, to even give out “We coexit with the Earth“ flyer to the public at road shows, and one of the items on mindful eating is Try Vegetarian.(L)
This quote is appropriate here: http://www.moonpointer.com/vege/22.htm :-O
Aiyo, such beautiful posters should be on display daily lah … Thanks for the link, I put this on my blog and also email out for sharing…
I wonder whether Singapore Buddhist Federation would spend time in the midst of their other urgency stuff on such thing, if I feedback to them?
“Buddhism is often seen as an ‘eco-friendly’ religion with an expanded moral horizon encompassing not just human beings but also animals and the environment. It is generally thought to have a more ‘enlightened’ attitude to the nature than Christianity … ”
I read this paragraph in a book found in NLB – Buddhist Ethics by Damien Keown … But, I don’t see much such activities happening in Buddhism in Spore, or maybe there are but not that significant …