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Can u explain the argument further? I don’t really understand
thanks
If there is an all-powerful god,
who is perfectly good
and created everything and everyone,
the fact that he created a single person
to suffer from a single negative thought
means he is not all-powerful or all good.
“He who has eyes can see the sickening sight;
Why does not Brahma [equivalent to creator God idea] set his creatures right?
If his wide power no limit can restrain,
Why is his hand so rarely spread to bless?
Why are all his creatures condemned to pain?
Why does he not to all give happiness?
Why do fraud, lies, and ignorance prevail?
Why triumphs falsehood — truth and justice fail?
I count your Brahma one the unjust among
Who made a world in which to shelter wrong.â€
– Bhuridatta Jataka, No. 453
“If there exists some lord all-powerful to fulfill
In every creature bliss or woe, and action good or ill,
That Lord is stained with sin.
The human being does but work his will.â€
– Mahabodhi Jataka, No. 528
This is a sensitive topic as it involves duality… if the answer is yes, someone would cling to yes and others would question why the answer is not no… the same applies if the answer is no…
Therefore, the long standing age old questions: chicken first or egg first, male first then female, so on…
Buddhism is all about middle-way (by saying middle, some would cling to this term too, sighs…), there is not a direct “yes” answer to the existence of god, neither is there a direct “no”… this is to prevent sentient beings from taking sides… the best answer in human-form words would be: éžç©ºéžæœ‰ï¼Œå³ç©ºå³æœ‰
However, folks would again have all sort of interpretations what this means…
Best is to apply what Lord Buddha teaches:
To find out more about gods, demi-gods, so on, a good read is <>
For the handling of duality or being non-duality, see chapter 9 of <>
For more details of “middle-way” take a look at <>
PS: Although I’m not a christian, I hold the utmost respect for JC. What he has done for sentient beings is the same as what a bodhisattva would do…
[re posting the references, the double braces seems to make them invisible…]
Anyhow to find out more about gods, demi-gods, so on, a good read is 起世經
For the handling of duality or being non-duality, see chapter 9 of ç¶æ‘©è©°æ‰€èªªç¶“
For more details of “middle-way” take a look at ä¸è«–
Whether there is an almighty good creator god or not is very clear according to the Buddha’s teachings. Such a god does not exist. (See Qwerty’s quotes above from the Jatakas, as taught by the Buddha.) Whether there is such a god or not is not related to non/duality. For example, there is no such thing as a rabbit horn. Nothing dualistic about this. The Middle Path is not about being ambivalent about whether there is a rabbit horn or not. Good to see what the Buddha taught about the creator god idea too:
How Were The ‘First’ Humans ‘Created’? (Part 1: Sutta Summary)
http://thedailyenlightenment.com/2010/03/how-were-the-%E2%80%98first%E2%80%99-humans-%E2%80%98created%E2%80%99-part-1-sutta-summary
How Were The ‘First’ Humans ‘Created’? (Part 2: Sutta Analysis)
http://thedailyenlightenment.com/2010/03/how-were-the-%E2%80%98first%E2%80%99-humans-%E2%80%98created%E2%80%99-part-2-sutta-analysis
Can a ‘Creator God’ be ‘Created’?
http://thedailyenlightenment.com/2010/03/can-a-%E2%80%98creator-god%E2%80%99-be-created
Interesting lesser known teachings attributed to JC:
http://www.evilbible.com/what_would_jesus_do.htm
Buddhist critique on god-idea:
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/beyond-belief02.pdf
The Buddha did preach in his sutra where he mentioned about heavenly demons who deter others from the path of the dharma. This is no coincidence. If heavenly theists can fall and become great demons and devils. That only show that the path they are on are still not free from samsara. Any being who operates from self, ego, pride, desire, anger and jealousy will never be free from the same politics that plagued the human world. This is the poison the dharma medicine hopes to purge. The human world is merely a crossroad where the 6 realms converged. Every man if they believe in samsara and rebirth is a configuration of hell beings, animals, gods, human, hungry ghost and asuras. All these tendencies are latent in our alaya. Only the ratio of the makeup exists differently from man to man. These tendencies crop up from time to time and our present habitual actions either reinforces them or weakens them. Some man behaves like animals or are extremely carnal because they have been animals in their past. Some selfish, covetous and can never be satisfied like hungry ghosts. Some living like gods with fame and wealth at their calling. Some inciting wars with their cunning. Some psychopathic and macho sadistic and always giving hell to people. The worst of them all are those who defer others from the dharma with their cunning when even when they know nothing. These are indeed the sons and dotters of Mara.
Hi, just would like to share what wisdom I’ve got with the topic “There is no Almightly Good Creator God.”
God/Heaven is very fair and just. It is not about Good or Bad, but what is done/received appropriately.
Eg. If a baby crawls close to a well and can fall into it, a person would rush over, pickup the baby and move away from it. Is this good or bad? what he/she did was appropriate according to the virtues of righteousness/Benevolence etc
We can all become Buddhas (awakened and enlightened) through internal cultivation (removing our bad habits, desires etc) and external cultivation (helping other understand the Truth eg. Karma). These actions are done with true sincerity with no hidden motives. In doing this we create virtues and merits to payback our sins we committed from previous lifetimes.
God/Heaven created each and everyone of us equally. However it is due to our Karma that some of us are born rich or poor, long life or short life and disabled or not etc. It’s due to Sentient Beings that the 6 fold path (Heaven, Deities, Human, Animal, Hungry Ghost, Hell)was created by Heaven to punish us accordingly of our sins.
If you’re friend has a negative thought or tends to have negative thoughts, than it something that he has to work on to correct. Its good to know what faults you have, then you can work to remove them. It’s best not to blame God/Heaven in our situations. Only we are responsible for our Karmic Debts. Only we can help ourselves if we choose to or not.
Just would like to say sorry if i’ve offended anyone, my understanding is still very shallow. but I hope i’ve helped in some way.
Kind regards
God is not Heaven. There is no all-good, all-wise and all-powerful creator God, or there would not be this much evil, delusion and powerlessness of the suffering in this world in the first place. As taught by the Buddha:
If there is an all-powerful god,
who is perfectly good
and created everything and everyone,
the fact that he created a single person
to suffer from a single negative thought
means he is not all-powerful or all good.
“He who has eyes can see the sickening sight;
Why does not Brahma [equivalent to creator God idea] set his creatures right?
If his wide power no limit can restrain,
Why is his hand so rarely spread to bless?
Why are all his creatures condemned to pain?
Why does he not to all give happiness?
Why do fraud, lies, and ignorance prevail?
Why triumphs falsehood — truth and justice fail?
I count your Brahma one the unjust among
Who made a world in which to shelter wrong.â€
– Bhuridatta Jataka, No. 453
“If there exists some lord all-powerful to fulfill
In every creature bliss or woe, and action good or ill,
That Lord is stained with sin.
The human being does but work his will.â€
– Mahabodhi Jataka, No. 528
We (re)create ourselves constantly. No God created us. Do check out these links:
How Were The ‘First’ Humans ‘Created’? (Part 1: Sutta Summary)
http://thedailyenlightenment.com/2010/03/how-were-the-%E2%80%98first%E2%80%99-humans-%E2%80%98created%E2%80%99-part-1-sutta-summary
How Were The ‘First’ Humans ‘Created’? (Part 2: Sutta Analysis)
http://thedailyenlightenment.com/2010/03/how-were-the-%E2%80%98first%E2%80%99-humans-%E2%80%98created%E2%80%99-part-2-sutta-analysis
Can a ‘Creator God’ be ‘Created’?
http://thedailyenlightenment.com/2010/03/can-a-%E2%80%98creator-god%E2%80%99-be-created
Interesting lesser known teachings attributed to JC:
http://www.evilbible.com/what_would_jesus_do.htm
Buddhist critique on god-idea:
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/beyond-belief02.pdf
“If there is an all-powerful god,
who is perfectly good
and created everything and everyone,
the fact that he created a single person
to suffer from a single negative thought
means he is not all-powerful or all good.”
We can all achieve enlightenment if we sincerely cultivate and propagate the Truth, and help other free themselves from suffering. God is fair and just. God created us with perfect virtues of benevolence, righteousness, propriety, wisdom, and sincerity. It is because of our bad habits, desires, ignorance that we have negative thoughts.
“He who has eyes can see the sickening sight;
Why does not Brahma [equivalent to creator God idea] set his creatures right?
If his wide power no limit can restrain,
Why is his hand so rarely spread to bless?
Why are all his creatures condemned to pain?
Why does he not to all give happiness?
Why do fraud, lies, and ignorance prevail?
Why triumphs falsehood — truth and justice fail?
I count your Brahma one the unjust among
Who made a world in which to shelter wrong.â€
– Bhuridatta Jataka, No. 453
All those why questions can be explained by our Karma.
Do you blame God for all the sufferings in the world? I don’t, and I don’t expect God to fix everything. It is due to our ignorance that we suffer, and sins committed that disasters occur.
Why is his hand so rarely spread to bless?
Do you know where blessing from? It comes from our merits and virtues inherited to us from our ancestors, or from our merits and virtues created in our past lifetimes and now. Whatever blessing we receive it is due to this, which is our karma.
Why does he not to all give happiness?
This is due to our Karma again. And what is happiness?
What is true happiness? To me it is to be free from all suffering, to be able to restore my buddha nature to its fullest. It is helping others reach enlightenment.
There are many levels of happiness. The highest level a mundane person could reach in happiness is that he achieves all his mundane desires on the material level. but what about his spirit? Has he achieved enlightenment? No. Then he/she will be reincarnated again to a human, animal, ghost depending on his level of merit.
Why do fraud, lies, and ignorance prevail?
It may look like fraud, lies and ignorance prevail but it doesn’t. Is it worth it to spend 1 day enjoying all our desires and pleasures committing sins, and then spend many lifetimes of reincarnation because of the negative karma we committed? No its not.
Nowadays morality is declining, and the sins committed are countless. If you’re strong, you would hold on tight to your values, and help explain others about the truth to help save them.
“He who has eyes can see the sickening sight;
Why does not Brahma [equivalent to creator God idea] set his creatures right?”
From what I’ve learnt we humans are 1 of the 3 powers. Heaven can’t speak and Earth can’t speak (the other 2) only humans can, and if we see the sickening sight, then we ourselves that know the truth and should teach others who dont know the truth.
After Gautama Buddha reach enlightenment through meditation, he got and decided to help all sentient beings by preaching the truth and helping them understand. I believe he spent 47 years preaching.
I don’t think he blame God or anyone why they couldn’t set the creatures right. We ourselves do the work of God to set sentient beings and creatures right.
Scriptures (Diamond Sutra, The 4 Books, The Bible, The Koran and Tao Te Ching) act as a guide for our spiritual cultivation. However, we need an enlightened master/seniors to teach us the correct meaning behind them (Some quotes are metaphors with many possible meanings). In the end we also can’t be attached to them, because they’re also just black ink on paper.
Kind regards.
P.S Are you vegetarian?
Buddhist only acknowledge the existence of gods and not god and there is no one creator who created all. To put it plainly. We are all diamonds since the pt the universe existed. The problem is some diamond degenerated into charcoal. When the charcoal looked at the diamonds what they see is something higher than what they are and attributed the diamond as a rank above them and is charge of us yet never being able to see that we too are diamonds to begin with. Gods in Buddhism are just like entities or evolved consciousness in our cosmic encycopedia. They existed but they misunderstood that they are the ones who created the universe. Creativity or the ability to create is not limited to only one entity. Our modern world is an example from inventors to artists. There are more than one entity who can create therefore god does not have the only exclusive creative licence only. Which explains why there are many other gods who claimed that they are creators too. 3000 yrs ago. I am sure the Buddha saw the future of religion and the chaos they bring to the world. That’s why he chose to position Buddhism away from them. If not. We too will be embroiled in the same war of trying to prove our god over the rests. Budddhism accepts that the gods in all the religions existed but none of them is the real creator. To answer if this universe is created by god. We must question if this is even the first universe that existed. The first chain in a string of chain reactions. Is that first chain really the first chain or it is a fragment of another chain that extends way beyond. That’s why the Buddha said that the universe is beginningless and endless. The same way one try to decipher which part of a circle is the point it begin. Enlightenment is really when one goes beyond the state of the diamond.
Another analogy is that of fishes. In the great sea of fishes, there are many herds of fishes all who considered themselves to be king of their own kind. They created their own kingdoms and each claiming king over the kingdoms they created. Sure they are kings. But if I emptied seas of water. Who then is the really king? Water or Air of course. In Buddhism. Emptiness is our king. It is not a sterile state. It is impregnated with infinite possibilities.
The cup that holds your drink. Is it the cup that is serving you or the space inside the cup that allows the water to reside within that which is serving you? In outer space, Astronauts can drink without a cup. What is it that is serving the water? We live in a material world and our senses are all embroiled in forms and it’s function. We thank the cup. How come nobody thank the empty space? Without space. Nothing can exists. God cannot create space becos if he created empty space it as good as he created nothing at all. Becos it is empty. If god oredi said he cannot be created. Then we should not create him at all.