A Buddhist Chats With Two ‘Professional’ Christians

Sent to connect@godlife.com, in response to a ‘automated’ Google ad that unwittingly appeared in a Buddhist site:

Hi, how should I make sense of these?

[1] Is There A God Who Allows Suffering?
http://thedailyenlightenment.com/2016/04/is-there-a-god-who-allows-suffering

[2] The Buddha’s Victory Over A God And Demon
http://thedailyenlightenment.com/2012/03/the-buddhas-victory-over-a-god-demon

[3] Hail Humour Of ‘Hail, Caesar!’
http://thedailyenlightenment.com/2016/08/hail-humour-of-hail-caesar

Thanks.

Reply from (V)onne, with (R)eplies between (12 Sep 2016):

V: Jehovah, God does allow suffering.

R: Hi Vonne, thank you for your replies… Is this supposed to be good news? How about being a perfect god, who creates only everything and everyone perfect like him in the first place? Unless he couldn’t, because he simply does not exist.

V: God gave mankind the right to choose for himself, whom and what he would follow. Jehovah God or Taoism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism and many, many more.

R: Assuming there is a god, he did NOT allow us the right to NOT have to choose. Why not NOT let us to choose, while making all perfect in the first place?

V: We know within ourselves (whether we admit it or not) that killing another human being is wrong.

R: Why then did the Christian crusades lead to deaths of millions in the name of god? Were the killers not all who knew god well? And why did god himself expect or want JC to die? Did god not know killing another human being or his own son is wrong? Did JC not call out to his father for forsaking him?

V: But we have the ability to choose to help or to hurt.

R: This is the unnecessary burden of choice. It is not a choice chosen.

V: Since God has allowed us the responsibility of choice, it is not God who causes suffering but mankind.

R: If there is a god who was responsible with creation of choice, it is clearly his fault. For example, if a church-building father creates a beautiful church for his kids, who lack wisdom (and knowledge), yet leaves a dangerous snake in there, with the high potential to bite the kids who don’t know any better, of course it is the fault of the father and not the kids that they suffer from being bitten.

V: If I choose to smoke cigarettes and I develop cancer of the lungs and have to suffer, who is responsible? Certainly not God. In the Garden of Eden, mankind chose the tree of the knowledge of good and evil rather than obedience to God.

R: Why did the supposedly good, no… perfect god, if he is there, invent tobacco, dangerous snakes, poisonous fruits…? Back to the father-and-kids example, it is clearly the father’s fault for leaving loaded guns around at home, that inevitably lead to misfires, given enough time. And humankind did not chose the fruit, as one single imperfectly created man did. And he was imperfect because of his creator’s imperfect creation. God could had simply made the first man to be like his ‘perfect’ son JC.

V: Buddhism is perhaps the most complex and paradoxical of all Eastern religions.

R: It is the most profound religion in the world and there is nothing paradoxical about it if studied and practised properly.

V: The Buddha’s Noble Eightfold Path to Nirvana is an intricate system that can require a lifetime to master. If you have ever tried to undo being addicted to something, you know how impossible it is to stop yourself from being addicted to sex, alcohol, drugs, even food and many other things.

R: The path is walkable and the results are attainable, with progress experienceable. As the Buddha taught, ‘Don’t just believe (blindly); come and see.’ Only those who never tried learning and practising it are naysayers. Do check out the precious Pure Land path too: http://purelanders.com/2015/08/18/how-do-pure-land-god-centric-teachings-differ May it illuminate your spiritual path, as your answers above and below are very weak in wisdom. Buddhists easily overcome addictions too. For sex alone, look at countless celibate monastics. And good Buddhists do not touch alcohol at all.

V: Satan is the instigator of all opposition to God, and is the power behind all cults and false gods. He is not a figment of the imagination. His original abode was heaven, with top position of ‘covering cherub’, ‘perfect in his ways, with great wisdom and brightness’ (Ezekiel 28:13). He chose to challenge God, he wanted to be like the most high God.

R: Satan was theologically created and remains to be maintained (as in, not subdued) by his creator since day one of his fall, which makes his creator just as evil, as the instigator of evil, as can be seen in this biblical verse too: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+45:7-8 God is thus the creator of darkness and disaster. But this is okay, as I don’t subscribe to his existence at all. He is a figment of the imagination, a fictional character of clearly so many obvious contradictions.

V: But Jehovah God is all powerful and nothing is impossible for Him.

R: It is impossible for him to vanquish Satan, so it seems. Because it is not done yet. God could not even vanquish the evil in the first human sinner, what more Satan.

V: He is not a statue made with human hands. He was not created. He has eyes to see, and ears to hear and a mouth that speaks. He is warm and caring, He provides for my every need. He is the Great ‘I Am’. My very best friend, savior of the world.

R: Millions of Buddhists worldwide prefer the Buddha, who is historical, while there is growing evidence that JC and his chief disciples never existed, as can be seen at http://www.alternet.org/belief/5-reasons-suspect-jesus-never-existed AND http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/160306-bible-apostle-jesus-christian-religion-ngbooktalk

V: God bless you to open your understanding and reveal Himself to you… In Jesus name, Amen.

R: Thank you for your time. May you open your heart and mind, to take time to read these articles to realise how the god subscribed to simply does not exist: http://thedailyenlightenment.com/?s=creator+god May this mark the beginning of your path to enlightenment. (Please note that all your replies will be recorded and possibly put online to share with more.) Please see this as an opportunity that arose, with your good karma, to start questioning your fundamental beliefs, so as to realise the truths also realised by the supremely enlightened Buddha, the ‘Teacher Of Humans And Gods’: http://thedailyenlightenment.com/2011/09/is-the-buddha-just-a-man May the blessings of the Triple Gem be with you. Namo Amituofo.

Reply from (K)evin, with (R)eplies between (14 Sep 2016):

K: My name is Kevin, and Vonne has asked me to answer your questions. Someone who lists the numerous critiques of the Christian faith has obviously done extensive study, and from your conclusions, problems exist. Without addressing all of your topics, let me address the central theme of human suffering, and free will. I am from the United States, and probably the most popular sport is football. The Super Bowl is an unofficial holiday in America. Supposed there was an owner of a football team who coveted the Super Bowl and wanted nothing more than to win this. What if he made a deal with the right people, fixed the entire season and won the Super Bowl, deep down what would be his feeling when the commissioner handed him the trophy? Would he be feeling the satisfaction of a lifelong accomplishment, or would he feel like a big fraud. I think you know the answer to this.

R: The answer can be discerned through contemplating this scenario… Imagine if you have a father who claims to love you perfectly. He knows you are easily confused, but nevertheless puts a snake in the otherwise beautiful house you are in whom he knows will tell you to eat a poisonous fruit. And as expected of the young and ignorant, you do eat it, and are banished, along with all your descendants. Would you be feeling that the father is like a big fraud, because no other father you know will ever put a snake in your house? I think you know the answer to this.

K: Imagine God with all his sons daughters surrounding Him, not because they love him, but because He made them love Him, made Him serve Him, and prevented them from learning anything from the world around them.

R: Learning what? Sin? Why is that ever a privilege? A robot programmed to never fail or feel will never ever feel disappointment, and he can be perfectly programmed. Anything else is programmed to fail, a product of a poor creator.

K: In the Garden, God created man and woman in a perfect environment,

R: If it was perfect, there would be no fall from grace possible in there.

K: but He gave them a choice, whether or not they would serve Him.

R: He did not give choice – on whether to have choice or not. Please refer to the robot example above.

K: In their rebellion, of their own free will, they chose to disobey God.

R: Rebellion? Were they not, as you mentioned, exercising the precious free will given to learn more from the world around them? What kind of creator gives free will while demanding following of orders forever? The term for this is slavery, which is the proposed eternal master-servant relationship in the proposed heaven.

K: As a result, He sent His Son to die for their sins, and the sins of the world.

R: If you are a perfect loving father, will you let your firstborns suffer due to your own poor parenting, before letting them spawn many generations of equally or more wayward offsprings, and suddenly force another to son to die for all the earlier and later sons and daughters? Or will you, since being perfect, ensure the firstborn is as perfect as oneself and the son who need not be sent to die for all?

K: Think about this, He loved us so much, He sent His Son to die for us. Do you have any children? Wouldn’t you die for them?

R: Do you mean that you will send your son to die for other sons and daughters? Even JC cried out that he was forsaken on the cross. What kind of father subjects any son to that? Wanting to die for your children is NOT the same as wanting a child to die, or sending most unloved children to burn in hell forever just because they don’t love you back.

K: God knew this was the only thing that would satisfy His Holiness, and because of Christ’s death, all the world has access to eternal life.

R: Nothing would satisfy God than having his son die? This is amazing! There is no logic as to how all can live forever just because one was forced to die. Also, it is not true, what you said, that all has access to eternal life. It is clear in the seemingly racist record of the book of Revelations in the Bible that only limited numbers of limited races can enter heaven. It is actually not likely, due to your name, that you are even of the right race. It is good to study this book thoroughly to realise more of such issues – http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/beyond-belief02.pdf

K: ‘Greater love hath no man than this, than a man lay down His life for His friends.’

R: Great hate has one who kills his most precious offspring while sending most others to hell forever?

K: The greatest story ever told, is that God loved us so much, that He became one of us, died for the very ones who rejected Him, and gave eternal life who all who believe.

R: ‘Story’ is indeed the word? Just a story that makes little sense due to ALL the points below and above?

K: This is the belief I was raised in. I have tested and found it to meet all of my needs. I will continue to place my faith in Christ until I die, and by His grace spend all eternity with Him, and with those who have made that free choice He has given all of us. I hope in your search that you re-examine Christianity, and ask Christ to reveal His truth to you, I will be praying for this. God bless!

R: May you awaken to greater wisdom, by looking through all the links sent to you and Vonne, as above. I shall sincerely pray for you too. Please do not worry about me, as Buddhism has ALL the answers I am looking for. It makes infinitely more sense while god-centric teachings could never answer even a single sensible question posed. I’m just trying to awaken your Buddha-nature, the potential for realising perfect compassion and wisdom for all sentient beings. Namo Amituofo.
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There are no further replies from Vonne or Kevin.